u/finntuitive1

For the last few months I have been playing around with intravenously injecting 4-mmc. It’s quite a functional stimulant for me, but IV takes it a much higher level of rush and euphoria. The rush is virtually instant after the slam.

I got given some cocaine tonight, it’s not top shelf stuff but it’s not awful, so I gave it a go and started with 120mg. I have been a crack user previously so I knew what a bell ringer is like, and I did have a little one, but I couldn’t help think how 4-mmc is a better rush. I took the dose of cocaine up to 160mg and they gave me a proper bell ringer but again, wasn’t as nice of a body high as 4-mmc.

So for science, I had to find out what mixing them was like, so I did 200mg of 4-mmc and 140mg of cocaine in 1.5ml of water……and holy shit that was an intense bell ringer 🙈 the 4-mmc gave an immediate rush that just got more body intense as the cocaine came on more gradually over 5 minutes. A very interesting combination for sure.

But 4-mmc is still without a doubt a better rush.

I have ASD and ADHD and stimulants have always had different effects on me to what neurotypical people experience. They actually make me quite regulated.

But, I highly advise nobody IV these drugs or any drugs for that matter. It’s not worth it. I wish I didn’t and I am worried I am now a habitual user. I’ve slammed 4mmc every day for the last 6 days. I’m not proud of this at all.

Stay safe guys. Don’t do silly things like I do. ✌️

Finally got around to trying IV coke this evening. I have been slamming 4mmc for a couple of months now, but had left the coke alone, but I got given some, so I thought why not.

I will be honest, in terms of rush and euphoria, the 4mmc high is better. The Coke high is more stimmy, but it’s not a nicer rush IMO. I have only done 150mg now as a max dose of cocaine and it gave me a ringer, but I did find myself wishing it felt like 4mmc.

So for science, i decided to try them both in a combo, and just shot 200mg of 4mmc along with 140mg of coke, and that was pretty damn good I must say. The 4mmc has more of an immediate rush ive noticed but the coke comes on over the course of a couple of minutes. My doses of 4mmc alone lately have been 300-350mg.

Stay safe

Hey guys,

After my post about legal highs, I’ve had some feedback that people have a lot of interest in the history but also the chemistry of these compounds. There’s so many that I knew you could write a book about just the last 30 years of legal highs.
So I am thinking about writing a book, and that book will be titled “not for human consumption”.

I only want to do this because I have an insider view of the industry and worked in a legal country for novel psychoactive substances, and also have an understanding of the chemistry.

I am considering, like how Shulgin did in Pihkal and Tihkal, to include synthesis in the second half of the book, but with the caveat that this synthesis would not be my own, and this is where i would be crediting others for their work wherever possible or including what exists in the public domain. This would just be a homage to Shulgin and his works.

It would be a collective effort though. I do not have experience with many legal highs, as I just didn’t have any desire to try them. Things like a-pvp, md-pvp, NEP and many other cathinones, some benzos, opiates, the synthetic cannabinoids etc. these are molecules where I wound have little or no experience of them, my experience lies more with the psychedelics and stimulants.

So once the time comes, I would be looking to get people’s experiences to include in the book, and people would be able to either be credited with the experience or remain anonymous.

So if you are a user of or have experience with the generation of cathinones that have come out post 4mmc, such as the chloromethcathinones (CMCs), the a-pvp, a-php, the NEP, the Pentedrone etc. these are cathinones that never bothered with and have little knowledge of the experience, it would be good to get your experience with them.

I know some smoke them, which has become a problem in parts of the UK. I’ve only ever tried “monkey dust” though which was MDPV, or Methylenedioxypyrovalerone, and that felt amazing for the first hour and felt like cocaine, but once it started to wear off it felt horrible, and I never tried any of that series again after that.

It’s become apparent after comments, that some people are not aware, or are too young now to know why legal highs exist and why there has been such an explosion of them since 2008.

Some backstory, I am a chemist, I’ve worked in the Novel psychoactive substances industry, working with a scaly bunch of reptiles, under a legal framework and in a legal country.

The Godfather of research chemicals was Alexander Shulgin and his close friends who were also chemists. The books Pihkal and Tihkal are essential reading for anyone interested in these kinds of compounds. The world owes him a big debt and his work helped create and document so many amazing compounds, which for many years were completely unregulated. But the DEA busted him many decades ago and virtually every compound he ever discovered either became a class A drug in the UK, or in the USA, the analogue act was pretty much created to deal with the compounds he created.

Prior to 2008, there were only a handful of novel compounds left on the market that were legal. Things like BZP, TFMPP, these were piprazine based stimulants that made up a lot of the “herbal” ecstasy pills you could get in head shops. The effects were lacklustre, gave me a savage headache personally, and they barely got popularity.

There were also some legal highs available in Dutch headshops long before anything was sold online, stuff like 2C-I was even available at one point, but what got most popular there was “bubble” or Methylenedioxymethcathinone, or bk-MDMA, which was a substituted cathinone, and came from Methcathinone, which comes from the Khaat plant that is popular in some African countries and the Middle East.

Then, in 2008, the world experienced a drought of MDMA. This was because Burma burned down all the sassafras trees and ended safrole production. So MDMA labs had to switch to PMK-Glycidate but that took time.

In that time, 4-MMC or 4-methylmethcathinone, another substituted cathinone, came to the market, advertised online as “plant food” in the UK and “bath salts” in the USA. Only sold like this to skirt laws, and to enforce the idea this was “not for human consumption” and would be labelled as such.

4-mmc/mkat/mephedrone, became massively popular in the UK alongside MDMA and to a lesser degree Methylone, and for a few years the three were readily available, with the cathinones being a lot cheaper than MDMA.

Then 4-mmc sort of faded away along with all the good ones. 4-mmc was discovered along with Methylone back in the 1920s but sat in literature as a curiosity, until Dr. Z found it and pushed a lab in China to synthesise it on scale.

In that time, a lot of other cathinones came to market as Chinese chemists played a cat and mouse game with law enforcement and kept changing molecules slightly so they were legal. Then things like MDPV, MD-PHP, a-PHP etc all suddenly replaced 4-mmc and Methylone as “bath salts” so you didn’t even know what you were buying anymore. These cathinones are very different to 4mmc and caused a lot of psychosis and mental health issues, and still do.

This is also is what created the whole synthetic cannabinoid industry, it started with a compound called JWH-018 which was actually very delta-9-thc like in effect, but once that was banned, chemists kept changing molecules and soon we had all these crazy spice cannabinoids that give people seizures and exploded amongst the homeless population of the UK.

But ultimately the cat was out of the bag by this point with synthetic designer drugs and the market started looking at other things, like opioids, benzos, things that maybe should have been just left alone IMO.
Because the whole reason fentanyl exists on the recreational drug stage is because the world made it harder to get heroin, so the Chinese labs pumped out fentanyl. And as we know now, some of these novel compounds are far worse than the traditional drugs they are trying to replace.

The legal high industry has done some good too IMO, we wouldn’t have all these legal LSD analogues without it, people in heavy countries wouldn’t have the options they do now to explore their own psyche, so it’s not like it’s all been dark and exploitative.

Anyway, thanks for listening to my Ted talk, hope that helps clarify a bit of history and where we are in the world right now.

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*****EDIT - these days the RC market is slowing down as countries tighten laws, or bring in laws like the UK, which has just blanket banned anything psychoactive except for a handful of exemptions like nicotine and alcohol etc.

The Netherlands, once a bastion of sensible drug policy, has now tightened laws, brought in analogue act type laws to combat fentanyl and amphetamine analogues, and have even gone after the LSD analogues and phenethylamines and tryptamines. 3-mmc was legal for a few years, just because 4-mmc was banned, then 2-mmc came out because the 3-mmc was banned, but now even the 2-mmc is technically illegal but does still pop up online.

The cannabinoid market has developed from “spice” and black mamba type cannabinoids, like am2201, pimica, now the market has moved onto thc like synthetics like delta-8, THCP, HHC, which guys in the USA likely have seen in gas stations for a while. In the UK, there are many clear sites openly selling these buds, nothing seems to happen. They are not class B drugs per se like cannabis, but are covered by our psychoactive substances act.

Some European countries still have access to legal LSD analogues to buy online, such as 1-FE-LSD, whereas the UK is now not able to have these for sale, as they are all covered by the psychoactive substances act. IMO, soon, most European countries will have their own psychoactive substances act.

The dark side, is there are now nitazines, fentanyl analogues, even carfentanyl analogues coming from china, so the only way to solve it, is legalise and regulate, or ban everything. And we know what’s more likely in this world don’t we.

Hey guys. This might be a bit dark, but I’m comfortable mentioning this in a group of what I think are like minded people.

But basically, out of nowhere the other night while
Coming down and trying to sleep, I started almost day dreaming and got mental images of blood flashing back into the barrel and of needles piercing the skin. It was making me feel nauseous and excited and made me crave another shot.

Has anyone ever had the same or is that some dark sh*t my brain is pulling there?

So this evening I have shot the highest dose of 4mmc/mkat/mephedrone, that I’ve done so far by IV, and god Dayum, this is some strong ass shit.

Pretty much every strong dose lately has me throwing up , purely down to the rush. It doesn’t feel unpleasant, and the rush is nuts. It’s not as physical as a bell ringer from coke/crack, and doesn’t make you physically rush as hard in terms of heart rate or that pounding in the head , but the 4m is way more euphoric instead. Way less of a bad feeling on the heart too.

The only problem is, I know I’m turning an already short lived drug into something even shorter in effect . That is a problem, ive gone from 4 shots a session to over 10. I’ve also noticed my doses each shot have gone from 180mg to now 300mg. In about the space of 4 months. 😬 cravings have also increased too.

And get this, it’s a bit dark, but last couple of weeks, I’ve been getting mental images of blood flashing back into a barrel and of needles piercing the skin, could happen when drifting off or trying to relax, and I notice my heart starts going a bit and I might feel a bit anxious. That worries me a lot and it’s like when I used to have a problem with crack and I’d be smelling it clear as day around town when it wasn’t , all likely in my head. That lasted for weeks after detox too.

I am engaging with drug services this week. Not much they can do here for IV stim users I believe but have to give it a go. 8/10 people they see for IV use are likely injecting heroin not stims, so our services here rely on throwing bupe or methadone at people in lieu of any real kind of therapy or support. So I think I’ll be told that psychological addictions to stims are not going to get much help at all. But 🤞

Stay safe guys. Don’t me an idiot like me.

Just thought I’d share this one to bring light to what happened in the last few years in the UK and to find out what the legalities are around body mods in your countries too.

The UK for decades, operated a system where consent would basically allow a practitioner to perform many body modifications that could be deemed to be surgical procedures. Things such as tongue splitting, skin removal scarification, silicone dermal implants, all these kinds of procedures could be performed by someone with the licences to carry out piercings, provided they had a sterile environment and provided they had consent.

But then that all seemed to change when a practitioner called “Dr. Evil” in the UK, was arrested and charged with carrying out unlicensed medical procedures. Now this case was a bit grey and not black and white, because they did find issues regarding his sterility. But what took him down was someone who he did a procedure on, calling the police and regretting the procedure months down the line.

But that case was a catalyst for law change in the UK and set the precedent of consent not being enough and being licensed as a piercer not being enough.

So that overnight put an end to surgical body modification in the UK. Some things did go underground I know, and I attended a few suspension parties that were going on behind closed doors, but despite me knowing people in that scene, I would ask around about someone doing these procedures on the down-low, but would just be stonewalled and told a flat out no.

A lot of people I know who have had scarification and a tongue split since, have all gone to Germany for that, where currently at least, you can give your consent. Christ, I’ve even heard of people giving consent for body parts to be eaten in Germany, they actually have a cannibal underground scene. So I guess a bit of surgical mods is the least of their worries 🙈

Hey guys,

I have been slamming 4mmc lately. I have never slammed Tina. I have been liking the effects, and it’s a crazy rush, but it’s too short lived.

In the space of 3 months, I’ve gone from shooting 150-180mg every 2-3h while on a sesh, to shooting 250-280mg every 45 minutes. The other night, I was fiending for another shot after 30 minutes and had to stop and have a little word with myself.

I don’t think this is sustainable. It’s already such a short lived high when snorted that I think this isn’t one to become hooked on slamming. But I’m not going to lie, I don’t think my IV journey is done just yet.

So while Tina is hard to find here in the UK, it is available in the gay scene, so I’m thinking of asking some friends if they can acquire it for me. I think if I don’t switch to something with longer legs, that I’m going to give myself a fkin blood clot or a stroke or something by slamming 10-15 times a session and messing my arms up.

So what kind of durations are people getting out of what kind of doses? My tolerance might be a little higher than a novice as I have been taking 4mmc for a while and have elvanse on script.

Hey guys. Wondering if it’s possible to shoot lisdex/elvanse?

I know you have the enzyme in your body that breaks the lysine conjugation, but wondering if that’s only when taken orally?

Thanks.

Hey guys. Currently my drug of choice to slam is 4mmc. I love the rush and euphoria, it’s so cheap, I can get 3.5g less than a McDonald’s meal, and then I just recrystallise it into pure needle point crystals.

It’s very moreish to slam, and at my worst night, I ended up shooting 13 times, but I was also a noob and had bad technique, so I actually stabbed myself around 45-50 times to get those 13.

My veins are hard to find even with a tourney, and I would just love to have either a cannula or one of those blue butterfly needles with the infusion line attached.

Thinking it will be far less damaging to my body to have a cannula I can use over a session, not chasing veins and giving myself cellulitis again from missing and injection into the tissue instead.

I know cannulas have a learning curve to be good at insertion , I’d probably ask a friend who is a Nurse to train me and show me pointers.

Has anyone got any experience using them?

Thanks guys.