I started seeing a man who values female submission and subservience in a way I am not used to and make me feel a little fearful. He wants me to wear short skirts (I never wear anything above the knee) and to be free use among other things. Im worried I will not be able to satisfy him.
I am here to ask for advice from the Sirs and other females on how I can overcome my internal resistance to please him.
This lifestyle often goes along with "traditional values" which stereotypically means the reason for marriage is for the father to have legitimate children to inherit his name and property.
That being said, the logistics of child rearing has changed dramatically due to advances in technology and changes to our social structures. We can now DNA test babies to find out true paternity. We have many birth control options that are much more reliable than what most people had for most of history. Many people are also finding they are unable to have or do not want children. On the other side, marriage is no longer seen as necessary in many cultures globally and having children out of wedlock is normal in some places.
In the conservative and highly patriarical community I grew up in a marriage without children was seen as unfulfilled (better adopt if infertile) and sex outside of marriage was sometimes compared to murder by members (for both men and women).
So my question is if your vision of a patriarical lifestyle is compatible with not having children?
I actually don't see a fundamental difference between men and women. The whole discussion has always felt ridiculous to me because isnt it obvious that men and women are not as different as society claims?
Real comments that make me feel crazy:
I see this quite a lot, even from younger people and "feminists." If women dont desire sex then why are sex and sexuality studies dominated by women? Why do I read more explicit sex scenes in novels written by women? Why do women make "irrational" decisions for sex like men do (risking pregnancy and even death sometimes). Also most men are not obsessed with sex.
Another myth that is easily shown not true. Many women run away from relationships while many men cannot even function outside of one. I have always found men to be the ones wanting to pursue and label a relationship and Im the one trying to slow things down.
Man have greater ability to enact their violence and selfishness due the power they have from patriarchy and strength. But women are also selfish and violent, they just tend to use non-physical methods and their physical aggression is generally less harmful and taken less seriously. We all work with what we have available to us and what we think we can get away with.
Men are given more opportunities for leadership and more grace when they make mistakes. But if you look around at who actually displays effective leadership qualities its both men and women. Most men, like most women, prefer to follow most of the time. You have to remove your blinders to see objectively.
Even if true (reproductive science disagrees) most people agree that having old parents isnt ideal for countless reasons. From my experience both men and women feel pressure to have kids before 40 and those who actually want kids want them as soon as they feel ready to.
I would say men and women are equally bad. Some women deny their own needs and desires to a pathological level and some men prioritize theirs to the point of entitlement. It ties into communication because how can you effectively communicate if you do not listen to yourself about your own needs and desires? How can you listen to others if your own needs and desires always come first?
The fact that all demogrphics say this about each other probably the same amount should invalidate it. Of course people are more eager to get rid of what hurts them and less eager to get rid of what benefits them. Thats human nature.
Anyways, growing up I always felt irritated by gender stereotypes as I when I hear people say "men always do x" i can't help but think "but so do I and Im not a man." Or "women do y" and I think "so do men..."
Also, a common argument on this sub and in real life is that men work more dangerous jobs and I just wonder where the awareness is? Many female dominated professions are known for being hazardous (Healthcare, teaching, cleaning, caregiving, etc) while many of the dangerous male professions systematically exclude women. The tolerance for dangerous workplaces is not the fault of anyone but those who actually have the power to improve the workplace.
Do you feel it is a necessary part of the dynamic?
Is it something you are against?
Would you be frustrated with a female who has a high sex drive so that sex is never forced?
Or do you expect your female to always be ready and eager?
I really want to be bound, bred, and milked like a hucow. I even can produce some drops. But I have a near flat chest :(
As a divorced woman in her early 30s I cant help but feel that I have no place in this kind of lifestyle. What man would value a used woman?
Some facts about human nature exist regarless of sex, gender, race, ethnicity, socioeconomic status, abilties, etc.
Humans seek comfort and avoid discomfort.
Humans want to feel safe and valued.
Resentment builds up when one party feels they are giving more than they are revieving in return.
Loss of respect is a natural reaction to a person acting narcissistic and selfishly.
If an experience is consistently unpleasant people will try their best to avoid it as it would be irrational not to.
You cant expect respect and submission if you refuse to provide and take accountability for your own actions.
You cannot expect love and devotion through abuse and control.
You cannot expect loyalty while offering no sexual satisfaction, emotional support, or willingness to communicate and listen in return.
You cannot expect to be seen as leader if you refuse to make difficult decisions or accept accountability.
You cannot expect someone to sacrifice without receiveing anything in return.
You cannot make sex unenjoyable for your spouse and expect them continue to provide it. Yes men can force it on women but women are just as capable of strategy as men are and tend to figure out ways to avoid it and/or find pleasure elsewhere.
I know as a woman its not my place to preach. I just want to give some perspective as a woman who views this as more than a kink but also a lifestyle. I think its true than many women desire a dominant man and like to be submissive. Most women have responsive desire which requires men to take the initiative. But its completely stupid and goes against intrisict human nature to submit if you are only getting pain and suffering out of it.
Even as a radical feminist some of the things I hear other women in feminist spaces say is completely out of touch with reality. And non feminists call this out all the time and it is taken as an attack. But its antithetical to the point of feminism. Women and men are both equally susceptible to human nature. Some behaviours are so prevalent and persistant that, while they dont have to be inevitable, we have to admit that its inherent to the human experience.
Some examples:
Cheating: women also cheat, the methods may be different but they do it. Women are jusy more likely to deny it.
Manipulation: men leverage authority and strength. But women leverage social dynamics and emotions. We all know this. These things can be very damaging to the victims and communities.
Selfishness: women can be just as entitled and self serving. An example maybe is weaponized incompetence, which is often ascribed to men, but women also do it but refuse to acknowledge it.
Cruelty: women bully and ostracize just as men do. Women can be just as cruel when dating as men are.
Using sex for power: this looks different but it exists. Women know that men are easily manipulated through sex and emotions. We dont like to admit it but its a very powerful feeling to have men doing things for you and treating you as special because they are sexually interested in you.
Laziness: It is certainly nice to not worry about paying the bills or do hard physical labor in the sun (when you have a man doing that for you, becoming less common these days).
Im sure there are more things but thats all for now.
There seems to be varying thoughts on what this actually means so I would appreciate any Sir who is willing to answer.
Nothing is better than someone bigger, stronger, and smarter than you loving and caring for you. Nothing better than loving, pleasing, and submitting to someone who will lead and protect.
But the reality that is just a fantasy served to women to get them to buy into gender roles. It means you dont have to grow up because you will always have what comes to a father like figure caring for you. Its alluring since life is stressful, lonely, and expensive. In adddtion the ideology is present in the stories from our childhood leaving a sense of nostalgia and longing.
Even after becoming a feminist I held onto the mentality instilled into me from my mormon upbringing and ended up married to someone from a conservative culture steep in confucianism. Now that Im divorced Ive been forced to come to terms with real life, but I still find myself longing for a man who will lead me and I can submit to. Ending that belief calls into question everything I believed in and leaves me wondering who I am and what my role in society is.
Unfortunately the reality is men are just as human as women. They are just as scared, unsure, selfish, and needy as women. They are not smarter. They are told a different version of the same fantasy of gender roles and certainty. I feel that many of us who fantasize about traditional gender roles are just trying to find something safe to hold onto that gives an illusion of purpose, stability, and control in our lives.
So to restate the title: I wish men were superior. I wish I could live in the anti feminist fantasy people like to push. But its not reality.
Purity is often a big part of patriarical cultures. Part of that purity tends to be that sex is for reproduction between a husband and wife only.
Another thing is that from a biological point of view males should strive to ejaculate inside a vagina whenever possible since that is the biological purpose of sex.
Vaginal sex is also generally more pleasurable, especially for women, so that is another incentive.
Do you agree? If you disagree can you explain why?
Thank you
Purity is often a big part of patriarical cultures. Part of that purity tends to be that sex is for reproduction between a husband and wife only.
Another thing is that from a biological point of view males should strive to ejaculate inside a vagina whenever possible since that is the biological purpose of sex.
Vaginal sex is also generally more pleasurable, especially for women, so that is another incentive.
Do you agree? If you disagree can you explain why?
Thank you
I was raised to dress very modestly and that it was of the utmost importance for women and men, but especially women.
I enjoy dressing modestly and I think the men I date appreciate it too, but it seems like some people like their partner to dress in a revealing manner?
Does your opinion change depending on relationship status?
Or do you not care? Interested in hearing people's thoughts
I was raised to dress very modestly and that it was of the utmost importance for women and men, but especially women.
I enjoy dressing modestly and I think the men I date appreciate it too, but it seems like some people like their partner to dress in a revealing manner?
Or do you not care?
I have considered myself a feminist since I learned the concept despite growing up in a high control patriarchal religion in a conservative area of Canada. To me the men who are against feminism just dont seem to like women or value them as human beings. The women who are against it just want to be perpetual children.
If you arent a feminist and you actually like and respect women how do you explain that?